Senior PUK Leader: Talabani is Irreplaceable; After Him PUK Will Restructure Itself

 LEADING GERMAN SEMI-GOVERNMENTAL THINK TANK THINKS ALWAYS IN THE WRONG DIRECTION / MESOP

Rudaw: In an interview with Rudaw two years ago, Guido Steinberg, a German researcher said that after Talabani, most of the PUK members will join the Gorran movement and the rest will join the KDP. What do you say to that analysis?

22/12/2012  RUDAW -SULAIMANI, Kurdistan Region—In this interview with Rudaw, Mala Bakhtyar, the head of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) political bureau speaks about the future structure and outlook of his party. Mala Bakhtyar says that there are figures inside the PUK that can lead the party, but that no one can relive his important political and inspirational leadership.

Regarding the current standoff between Erbil and Baghdad over the disputed territories, Mala Bakhtayr says that Kurds should reassess their negotiation methods with Baghdad and that it is time they marked the borders of Kurdistan once and for all.

The PUK

Rudaw: How do you see the future of the PUK after Talabani?

Mala Bakhtyar: I have no doubt that no one inside the PUK can replace Talabani, and this is the first time I say this. I hope Talabani lives long enough until our nation; democracy and the PUK have reached the safe shores. However, I believe that after Talabani, there will be a post-Talabani phase for the PUK, which will change the party’s structure in a way that will be conducive to PUK’s reality of the time. There should be grassroots change in PUK’s structure and participation.

No one should think that they could ever replace Talabani. It is likely that in 50 years from now, our future generations can produce their own great leaders, but after Talabani, it will take quite some time for the PUK to adjust itself to the future.

Rudaw: What do think of the fact that in past three decades the PUK hasn’t been able to nurture someone to replace Talabani?

Mala Bakhtyar: That is not what I said. We have many figures inside the PUK and that won’t be an issue. My point is for the leaders of the PUK to be able to restructure and guide the party after Talabani.

“My point is for the leaders of the PUK to be able to restructure and guide the party after Talabani.”

Rudaw: In an interview with Rudaw two years ago, Guido Steinberg, a German researcher said that after Talabani, most of the PUK members will join the Gorran movement and the rest will join the KDP. What do you say to that analysis?

Mala Bakhtayr: I think that stems from the tense days that passed between Gorran and the PUK. But I never buy that analysis. Back then I knew how the PUK would fair in the future and now I know where Gorran stands and what its future will be like. It is likely that some people join Gorran after Talabani or that some others may leave Gorran and join us. As we speak, more than 250 Gorran members have contacted us and want to rejoin the PUK, yet not even two people have been willing to join Gorran this week.

As for PUK members joining the KDP, I would say that the KDP has its social, national, political and historic grounds that no one and no circumstances have been able to take it away. But I assure everyone, I assure the PUK, that after Talabani the PUK will not consider merging with the KDP. Things said to this effect are nothing but a psychological propaganda and efforts to create doubt among PUK members.

I have always said that we are easterners and the death of our leader usually strengthens the need for unity among us, especially a great leader as Talabani. For us, Talabani is a school of thought. I never believe in a cult of personality, even for someone as Talabani, but I know that his impact on the members and supporters of the PUK is great and forever we will remain loyal to his thoughts.

Rudaw: Has the PUK regained its past strength in Sulaimani or do you still see Gorran as your main rival?

Mala Bakhtyar: Whichever party runs in the elections is to us a rival and we will take it seriously. We have now better relations with Gorran, but in Sulaimani and in Kurdistan we will always reckon with our election rivals be it Gorran, the Islamic parties or others. But what is important is that we deal with them in a civilized manner and not make mistakes that could drive our votes to their side.

Erbil and Baghdad

Rudaw: Did you ever expect the Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki to act this way?

Mala Bakhtyar: This problem is not about one person or two. It is about whether or not we live in a country where civil society, democracy, and the unions are paramount. Are decisions made through a democratic philosophy or not? That is the most important topic for me, and in my meetings with Iraq’s political parties, with Kurdistan Region President Barzani and in Baghdad, I have always stressed on that point.

As for PM Maliki, we cannot ask of him something other than what his party is about. He is of the Dawa party, which is a Shia party with its own programs and agenda. But it is clear that the Dawa Party’s belief in democracy is limited just as it is respect for the constitution is. I ask why the Shia parties have made sure half of the constitution is based on the Shia ideology? Obviously, they did that in order to ensure their grip on power. Shia prime ministers have run Iraq for three terms, once Ibrahim al-Jaafari and twice Maliki. They rely on some items of the constitution in order to entrench their philosophy.

So, I believe Maliki’s adherence to his party’s philosophy as well as the people who voted for him is what has given him such powers. Is it the people around him who give him wrong advise? Is it the former Baathist officers who give him false impressions about the political conflicts in the country? Whatever the reason, Maliki made wrongs moves in Khanaqin in the past and the establishment of the Dijla Forces.

“I have always said that we are easterners and the death of our leader usually strengthens the need for unity among us,”

Rudaw: Do you have hopes that democracy will one day rule in Iraq?

Mala Bakhtyar: What has capped the situation for now is a balance of power between the Shias, the Kurds and to some degree the Sunnis. This is a transitional stage. Perhaps in the next few elections, if we manage to keep this balance and respect the results, we will be able to achieve our democratic rights.

Rudaw: Are the Iraqi parties able to withdraw confidence from Maliki?

Mala Bakhtyar: The best way in our view is to normalize the political situation in Baghdad. The Iraqi or Kurdish parties haven’t decided definitely that the only solution is Maliki’s removal. We are currently trying to make Maliki correct his acts and stick to the Erbil Agreement (2010), which made him prime minister. If he accepts this, then we as Kurdish parties will be happy and from then on will reassess our agreement in a way that will suit today’s reality.

Rudaw: Do you think Maliki’s hostile moves towards the Kurdistan Region should be partly blamed on the Kurdish deputies in Baghdad?

Mala Bakhtyar: In our meetings we clearly point out their neglect in monitoring the agreements that we have with Baghdad. But President Jalal Talabani has often suggested that there should be a joint PUK/KDP committee in Baghdad to closely follow up on our agreements.

Rudaw: Given Maliki’s attitude, do you think there will be war over the disputed territories?

Mala Bakhtyar: I wrote an article a few weeks ago in which I said that we should revise our methods of negotiation with Baghdad. I think the way we have been talking to Baghdad up to this point cannot produce more than what it has so far. The policy we have adopted since 2003 is hard to bring any big results. I believe we have to emphasize on the borders of Kurdistan. We have been negligent in that regard, and from now on we have to work on marking our borders, not fighting for where we are the majority and where we are not. We have to fight for the historical borders of Kurdistan and no matter who is the majority there, Arabs, Kurds or Turkmen, it is still part of Kurdistan.

The Government

Rudaw: Do the political parties still interfere in government affairs?

“I think the way we have been talking to Baghdad up to this point cannot produce more than what it has so far.”

Mala Bakhtyar: I think party inference in the government has declined by 50-70 percent, and it is different from one area to another. But the PUK and KDP, as the winners of the elections, have rights in that government. The prime minister is usually appointed by the winning parties. So are the ministers and speaker of parliament. How can you ask that those two parties get completely out of the government? I think the mistake of both parties isn’t the way they appoint their ministers or run the government. The problem is that the system of governance in Kurdistan is still not mature enough.

Rudaw: In Sulaimani city, some people complain that the PUK interferes in the affairs of the local government. What do you say to this?

Mala Bakhtyar: But we also complain that the PUK has lost the connection it once had with government institutions in Sulaimani. But as I said, we cannot completely divorce the two parties from the government. However, what is important is who is put in office at provincial levels and how. Of course the ruling parties appoint their own candidates. Would the opposition appoint a candidate from the PUK or KDP if they win the elections?

Syria and Western Kurdistan

Rudaw: What do you think the Kurds of Syria can gain from regime change?

Mala Bakhtyar: Last week, the Syrian opposition in Syria agreed to grant the Kurdish rights, and that was a significant step. I believe the Kurdish National Council (KNC) and the agreement they signed in Erbil is the best groundwork for the Kurds. Any political move outside that umbrella will be detrimental. I think the most dangerous thing is if the political disagreements in Western Kurdistan lead to armed clashes with the Democratic Union Party (PYD).

Rudaw: Is there a fear of civil war in Western Kurdistan?

Mala Bakhtayr: We have some fears about it. As the PUK, we believe that the cross-party meeting in Qamishlo was a great step forward. That and the Erbil agreement should be preserved and new armed groups shouldn’t be formed.

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